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And speaking of aerobatics... I tried yesterday to spin the plane. Flaps up, at 5000 feet, I set throttle to idle and let the airspeed bled off to stall. Tried doing that with full right rudder, and full left rudder. Plane buffet pretty bad, but it would just mush, not break off into any kind of spin. What do you do to get a Waiex to spin?

gyroron wrote:And speaking of aerobatics... I tried yesterday to spin the plane. Flaps up, at 5000 feet, I set throttle to idle and let the airspeed bled off to stall. Tried doing that with full right rudder, and full left rudder. Plane buffet pretty bad, but it would just mush, not break off into any kind of spin. What do you do to get a Waiex to spin?

Good question, I haven't been able to get mine to spin yet either, though I only tried a couple times. Might have to do an accelerated cross-controlled stall to get it started, and/or go full power. I'm waiting for my new headset to give myself some more headspace to the canopy before I try again.

not sure about the waiex but model a sonex with a jab will spin quickly if you go flaps retracted nose high to slow down to about 40ish (right at stall) then hard left stick and left rudder. Have not done a right spin which is against the propeller affect in a jab. I was taught in a champ to use opposite flight controls to spin and that just didn't work in the sonex. I just tried an exaggerated steep left turn right at stall speed (just as you start feeling the wing stop flying) engine at idle and it snapped into the spin. It was surprising since I had tried it several times unsuccessfully in the past with the cross control method (all it did is buffet and shake alot). My sonex with full flaps single person doesn't seem to stall. It just seems to mush down in a nose level-to high attitude at a 1000+ fpm decent. Maybe I have just not gotten the correct environment factors to make it stall at full flaps (it may stall that way in a MTOW configuration)
Mark

Well - 101 - spin recovery - because if you mess up acro - you will probably end up in a spin..... Right? Sure..... Like capsize drill in a sailing dinghy. So let's practice before Acro.....

Legacy Sonex with AeroVee

Darned if I can KEEP mine in a spin. I can stall it nose high, cross control it and it flips over into a very recognizable incipient spin. But it won't stay there. The nose flops downhill and she either just mushes downhill or develops a dangerous accelerating spiral. No matter how I abuse, cross control or hold controls "pro-spin" - yes she will flip into it - but she just wont stay there. I guess I could load her more aft CG and see if I can get it to flatten some - but I'd have to load her out of CG range. And if I was to do that - I'd want a spin recovery parachute.

I've also put the plane in a full crossed slip and raised the nose to stall her and see what happens. In high wings I've flown - the plane falls into the slip on it's side and rotates in an axis about its wings. In the Sonex - as the plane mushes into the stall the rudder wins and she rolls away from the slip but doesn't spin.

Base to Final "rudder it round excessively" to get the inner wing to stall and drop into the killer spin - nope - she falls off in a mush. You probably wouldn't have enough height to recover - just like a real spin - but she won't flip over and really spin.

And the power on departure spin where you get nose high, slow and apply too much rudder to counteract 'P' factor. Usually the plane will flip on it's back and spin. Nope - she just mushed and falls off onto the direction you have the rudder applied.

I do miss spinning....

Arjay wrote:Mike wrote:

Mike:

Some questions: What motor do you have? What model Rotec? How does the Rotec mate to the stock Aerovee intake manifold--is it a direct match, or require modification? Does the Rotec require carb heat? Air filter? What kind of connections are required for fuel input, throttle, mixture, etc.? Where can I get the Rotec?

Thank you for your input

Ron

Hi Ron. Sorry for the delay in the response.

I have an Aerovee. Rotec 34-R. I was able to mount the 34-R right to the intake manifold the same way as the aerocarb. Carb heat isn't really needed anymore than would be needed with an aerocarb. I run the same air filter (actually the K&N version of the stock one). It only took minor changes to throttle, mixture and fuel connections, however you will need to add a primer control. But it is easy and cheap. You can get it from Rotec, just good Rotec TBI.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

Mike: thanks for your input. I just ordered a new Rotec to replace the aerocarb.
Getting anxious to have some fun. Will try to keep everyone updated when we get it installed.
Ron

Well finally sacked up and did a loop. Then did like 4 more.... was actually a pretty easy maneuver and drama free. Started out at about 3500 feet agl, slight nose down with about 80 percent power ( jab 3300)... once I saw 150 mph I brought the nose up to about 35 degrees somewhat gently then hauled the stick on back and titled my head back to watch it come around. Slight reduction of power on the downside. Airspeed never got below about 95mph and no real build up of speed. Fastest I came out of any of them was maybe 105 mph. Was fun. Glad to add another “ trick “ to the list with this fun little plane

My mechanic Fred and I need some help from you guys flying acro in the Aerovee Sonex. When we had the aerocarb installed the motor would load up (too rich) and stop when Fred pulled up to about 3 g’s. It even caused him to make an emergency landing on the highway. Since then we changed the aerocarb to a new Rotec tbi. It took a few runs to finally get the tbi tuned to where the motor would start up and run smooth. Now we have the throttle stopped so that the slide in the tbi will not open the last 1/8 inch or so. In that configuration it runs well straight and level, gets about 3150 rpm on takeoff run and, a little more, about 3250, on climbout. The problem is it kills the motor when pulling any g’s, just like before with the aerocarb.

Any suggestions?

You guys flying regular acro with the Aerovee can you describe your fuel system setup?
Carb type?
Gascolator?
Fuel pressure regulator?
Fuel pump?
Burp tube?
Leaning ritual?

We are considering taking the Rotec tbi apart to see if we can find anything obviously wrong inside. But we don’t have a service manual, don’t really know what to look for, and can’t get any response to our many requests for help from Rotec.

Any words of wisdom from you guys with experience would be greatly appreciated. Help!,,,

Ron
Legacy Sonex td, aerovee

Legacy Sonex
Aeorvee 2.1
AeroInjector with 2.5 needle - tuned per the book. Slide is FULLY open at WOT. Idles at 800-900 once warmed up.
K&N High pass air filter.
Fuel tank vent line has a one way valve to let air in from outside and keep fuel in the tank.

Fuel Tank -> finger strainer in tank -> Fuel Cock -> Firewall -> Hi-Pass Gascolator immediately after the firewall -> dead straight slight downhill shortest run to Aeroinjector with armored flexible hose. All silcone/fibreglass firesleeved and covered again with fibreglass aluminized tape. Gascolator is taped over with the fibreglass aluminized tape.

Exhausts are fibreglass insulted full length to tail pipes just before they exit the cowl.

No burp tube.

No pressure regulator or pump.

No problem at idle - I have an outside air inlet pointed directly at the air filter.

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Generally - lean for best power.

Just before acro - ensure leaned for best power.

Sharp 3G - 5G pulls with no problems. If there IS a slight hesitation on the engine with the pull - lean a "smidge" more.

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It's about as simple as I can make it (some might argue about the gascolator) and it works.