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Bryan I dont intend to do alot of IFR work in the waiex but in so cal there is a pretty consistent marine layer in the mornings and evenings ususally right around 1000 feet AGL or roughly 1500 Feet MSL and extending 500-1000 feet up. Since i intend for this to be a cross country aircraft being able to clear that layer or fly an approach is vital to my mission. Maybe when i get it fully fleshed out and fly a few practice approaches i will be proven wrong on the capabilities of this aircraft but an AP coupled approach to somewhere in the vicinity of 1000 to 1500 feet agl and in most cases a broken layer; although it tends to be pretty consistent late at night / early morning seems to me to be a reasonable mission profile. Especially given the planned avionics package. Since that involves flying through visible moisture a heated pitot in my eyes is necessary equipment. and for the price difference between the unheated and heated versions the regulated garmin offering that integrates an ice detector seems worth the money to me, of course your mission set, budget, equipment selection and risk tolerances given all the reasons a sonex is not a good ifr platform may dictate a diffrent choice, but those are my reasons for going with a heated pitot tube if your mission is just a plain VFR fun machine the supplied solution for the sonex is more than sufficent.

On an unrelated note did you get the engine issue squared away, and are you still waiting on the FAA?

lakespookie wrote:On an unrelated note did you get the engine issue squared away, and are you still waiting on the FAA?

Not sure if this question is for me or not. My engine is good, though I have oil leaks to chase. My registration has been mailed into the FAA and I'm waiting on that.

I used to fly a PA28R single pilot IFR in the winter (plus other seasons), and it had a heated pitot tube. It also had an unheated one for the automatic landing gear extension. One time during IFR training we did ice the landing gear one and the gear went down. I don't remember needing to use the pitot heat except in potential icing conditions. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

Bryan Cotton wrote:Heated pitot? That's serious stuff.

Got to be careful if the freezing level is low! But even then I rather not deal with it lol. I had the same though but that’s such a huge power draw.

Flying your typical IFR mission of departing and arriving through coastal stratus in southern California, there is no need for pitot heat as you'll never be anywhere close to the freezing level. The ocean temps are higher than 55 degrees Fahrenheit and the clouds formed over that body of water are warm as well. The only time pitot heat could be necessary is when a full blown winter storm comes in from the northwest and you're not going to be flying in that, are you?

I did most of my instrument training and flying in southern California in a Cherokee that had no pitot heat and never found that I wished it was available. Well, maybe one time when I did fly in a winter storm but even then the freezing level was up around 9,000 feet so it was possible to stay below that level given the route flown. However, for multiple reasons, this was not a flight I would recommend to be taken in a Cherokee or Waiex, and I never repeated it again.

So if power drain is a concern, my opinion is, eliminate the pitot heat.

Art,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sonex taildragger #95,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jabiru 3300 #261

How about install it and don’t use it except for that one time you were stupid.

jerryhain wrote:How about install it and don’t use it except for that one time you were stupid.

Back up a few steps.........I wouldn't go so far as to use the word "stupid" but why is it that, more often than not, it's a relatively new inexperienced pilot who might believe that conducting any kind of IFR operations in a Sonex product, no matter how well equipped, is a good idea? I know, it can be done but should it be done, given the very 'experimental' nature of these airplanes? Occasionally, even a simple day VFR flight has its challenges. The inadvisable IFR flight I mentioned in a previous message, made in a Cherokee over 50 years ago, was successful. This was despite the lack of pitot heat which was, perhaps, the least of my worries, but should it have been done?.........absolutely not. Like they say "I learned from that".

Art,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sonex taildragger #95,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jabiru 3300 #261

Its one of those things i would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. My mission for this aircraft is as a cross country flyer so the possibility of being in very cold air and higher altitude crossing mountains is very real. do i intend to fly in bad weather or anything beyond the marine layer in so cal on the way back home no, But at the end of the day its all about risk tolerance and mitigating that risk, I was always going to put some flavor of the gap 26 into the aircraft because the AOA function i gain from it is something i value. The fact that i will be flying through clouds at times is an additional consideration. It def gets cold enough here in the winter for there to be a concern of icing, if you are just flying day VFR all the time sure you will probably never see icing conditions in southern california i mean how often do we even get rain down here but if i am flying in at 10 or 11 pm through a marine layer in the winter the possibility exists and the price difference is small enough to me to be worth the upgrade.

lakespookie wrote:The fact that i will be flying through clouds at times is an additional consideration. It def gets cold enough here in the winter for there to be a concern of icing, if you are just flying day VFR all the time sure you will probably never see icing conditions in southern california i mean how often do we even get rain down here but if i am flying in at 10 or 11 pm through a marine layer in the winter the possibility exists.

When reading this, the Sonex LLC guys back in Wisconsin must cringe just a bit. Your tolerance for risk is obviously much greater than mine is at my advanced age but maybe not when I was your age. Having finished building my Sonex 17 years ago, I purposely requested that the operating limitations allow for day VFR only. I didn't want to be tempted to fly what is a single engine experimental airframe with an experimental engine and propeller under VFR night conditions, let alone IFR night conditions with a possibility of icing. I only hope that if you eventually make the kinds of flights you currently envision, you won't be taking a passenger along.

You're going to do what you're going to do. I won't badger you any more.

Art,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Sonex taildragger #95,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jabiru 3300 #261

I have heard in other posts that some people have had trouble getting autopilot to work with Sonex in general due to low wing loading and being very responsive. I am currently building a Waiex, and I plan to use acro aileron. I wonder if non-acro aileron is more appropriate with autopilot use?