Limbach L2400 engine

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Limbach L2400 engine

Postby rizzz » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:46 pm

Hi All,

I've found a Limbach L2400, 25hrs since new, for sale here in Aus for $7900 through the SAAA (our version of the EAA).

Looks like a pretty good deal,
Limbach's are very nice certified VW conversions, the L2400 model is 100hp, fuel injected with liquid cooled cylinder heads, weighs 167lbs with accessories.

See specs:
http://www.limflug.de/files/pdf/DS-L2400DFi_EFi.pdf

Does anybody have any idea if this engine would fit the Sonex, preferably on the std VW mount?
It's a very tempting option if it would work.

Cheers,
Michael
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby fastj22 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:24 am

Cool motor. Never heard of it.
I would think it has a standard VW case and therefore will mount to the standard VW mount.
Looks like port fuel injection. That could be a huge benefit, or a huge pain in the butt. Great if it works, pain if it doesn't.
I do like the water cooled heads. makes it similar to a Rotax 912.
Keep us updated.

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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby rizzz » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:18 am

I had seen them before but dismissed them because they are so expensive.
They are the only (to my knowledge) certified VW conversion engines out there and they are used on a number of of certified aircraft types:
http://www.limflug.de/index.php?page=pr ... p&lang=eng

They also have a 160hp (!!!) 2400cc turbocharged VW conversion:
http://www.limflug.de/index.php?page=pr ... X&lang=eng

Imagine hanging that in front of a Sonex
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby SvingenB » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:53 pm

Sauer also make certified engines, http://www.sauer-flugmotorenbau.de/index.html as well as experimental.

A Sauer 2400 costs 2 times as much as a AeroVee. A Limbach costs 2 times as much as a Sauer. Limbach has produced about 6000 engines, Sauer about 1000. Supposedly Limbach started producing engines made of custom made parts by VW ordered directly by Limbach. A Limbach is therefore more of a real VW aero engine than a VW aero conversion. Later Limbach produced more and more parts themselves. It really is nothing like an AeroVee or similar made by aftermarket auto parts, but is put together by certified aviation parts.

The Sauer 2200 UL is quite nice. 85 HP at 3000 RPM (80 continuous at 2700) and weighs only 66 kg (145 lb). TBO of 1600 hours. The S 2400 UL has a bit more HP, but weighs 75 kg (165 lb) and can run on lower grade fuel. TBO is the same. Then there is the S 2100 ULT, turbo with 110 HP at only 76 kg (168 lb).
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby vigilant104 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:59 pm

SvingenB,
If you've seen them: How does the prop hub/bearing on the 2200cc Sauers and Limbachs compare to the stock VW bearing (where we've got the prop on the Aerovee)? Thanks.
Mark Waldron
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby SvingenB » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:12 am

vigilant104 wrote:SvingenB,
If you've seen them: How does the prop hub/bearing on the 2200cc Sauers and Limbachs compare to the stock VW bearing (where we've got the prop on the Aerovee)? Thanks.

It's a long time since I saw a Limback, and I didn't look at bearings. I know the CS versions are different from the FP, but no details. Looking at the drawings, it looks like the FP versions use standard bearings, but you have to remember there is very little standard about these engines. The Sauer 1800 is used in the certified Carat motorglider with a folding prop. The main point is that these engines are engineered pieces of machinery made to last in an airplane, not some ad hoc collection of autoparts.
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby rizzz » Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:33 pm

Remeber these engines are based on the type 4 VW block, not the type 1 like the AeroVee, GP, RevMaster and Hummel.
My friend has a Grob 109b which also has a type4 vw based (certified) engine in it, this one is a Grob engine but you can also have a Sauer or Limbach in the Grob 109b.
Here are some pictures and details of the engine:
http://vwaircraftengines.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=17
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby SvingenB » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:50 pm

As far as I know all the Sauer and Limbach engines are based on the type 1 casing. Some are based of the watercooled casing, but still type 1. The type 4 is much heavier and longer.
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby rizzz » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:43 pm

SvingenB wrote:As far as I know all the Sauer and Limbach engines are based on the type 1 casing. Some are based of the watercooled casing, but still type 1. The type 4 is much heavier and longer.


Looking at the pictures on the Limbach website it appears you're right, they are type 1's (sort of), I was always told they were type 4's like the Grob engine.

The type 4 is indeed heavier as it is an aluminium case, not magnesium like the type 1, but I did not realize the type 4 case was longer as well?
Michael
Sonex #145 from scratch (mostly)
Taildragger, 2.4L VW engine, AeroInjector, Prince 54x48 P-Tip
VH-MND, CofA issued 2nd of November 2015
First flight 7th of November 2015
Phase I Completed, 11th of February 2016
http://www.mykitlog.com/rizzz/
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Re: Limbach L2400 engine

Postby SvingenB » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:05 pm

The 100 HP Sauer 2400 UL can have both aluminum and magnesium casing. The aluminum being 6-7 kg heavier (still lighter than most "ordinary" conversion with the default magnesium casing). I think all the larger Limbachs have aluminum casing. I have contacted Sauer, and they can deliver anything from the 1800 to the 2100 turbo. They will also make an adapter so the engine can be mounted directly on the Onex mounts, and they have really nice carbon baffles that looks like they will fit most cowlings (with some adjustments I guess). My favorite is the 2400 with aluminum, since it has lots of power and weighs about the same as the Aerovee,is stronger and dissipates heat better. Twice the price of an Aerovee as well, so I will see what I decide. The Revmaster looks nice as well.

I'm still waiting for some hard facts about the Aerovee Turbo, price HP etc. Judging by the the Sauer 2100 ULT which cost 30-40 % more than the 2200/2100 UL, I guess the Aerovee Turbo will cost maybe 50-100% more than the Aerovee, or somewhere around 10-12 thousand dollars. If that's the case then the Sauer is a no brainer.
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